She Got the MBA and Built the Career. Then Motherhood Changed Everything.

00:09
Welcome to the Freedom of Enough podcast.  I'm Kim Patten,  author of Pivot and your host.  This is a place for honest conversations about what it really means to build a life that is true to ourselves.  Because we don't have to earn our worth.  We are already enough.  Let's discover what enough looks like starting now.

00:40
Today, I am talking with Marissa, the creator behind Leading Little Humans.  Marissa and I have surprisingly similar stories. We both earned our MBAs and PMPs, built careers we genuinely love, and then found ourselves questioning what success looked like after becoming moms. We talk about what it really takes to walk away from a career you work hard to build, that identity shift that comes with it.

01:08
And what happened when you start choosing your own definition of success instead of the one you thought you were supposed to want? We also gained to social media, comparison, motherhood, and that constant pressure to do and be more. If you ever wonder, I worked so hard to get here. So why doesn't this feel right anymore? I think you're going to connect with this conversation. Here is my conversation with Marissa. Hey, Marissa, welcome to the show.

01:38
Thank you for having me. am so excited to finally meet you virtually as I feel like I already know you. I found you on Instagram a few months ago and I, found your content on Instagram just so funny and relatable and authentic. Then I learned more about your story as we started chatting. I realized that you also left a very successful career after having kids and we started.

02:00
This just discussed, we started chatting. just discussed very more that we have so much in common. We both have MBA degree and we both love our career, but both felt this strong pool to be home at the season with our family. So I think your story is going to relate to a lot of people who are also thinking about taking the step, the step forward. And I'm just so excited to have you here today.

02:26
Well, thank you so much for having me again. And yes, it was crazy to me, as I mentioned to you before,  just in reading your book, this incredible book, it started seeing just your certs as well. And I was like, oh my gosh, I don't think I know anyone with an MBA, PMP that has gone through this experience and has stepped away because it's just not a typical, it's just not typical. Also, it's

02:50
at least in my experience, a male dominated field.  And so, you you don't have that connection or, you know, that relatability with the men that you work with. So yeah, it's just, it was crazy. This is a no brainer podcast you jump on. And I am so thankful that you asked me. So. Yeah. And when I find out we have so much in common, just like, Oh, I just love to see how, you know, her life is now.  And I want to know more about.

03:19
you. So let's go back to the beginning.  And we both have invested so much in our career and our education. So how was it when you're grown up? Did you always envision you want to be a stay home mom? Is that part of you your thoughts?

03:37
Absolutely not. No, I was a career driven, you know, one path bond.  I actually started my career when I was in high school. We got a co-op opportunity my senior year of high school, starting to work for the Army Corps of Engineers and continued while going and getting my bachelor's. Then when I came back with my bachelor's, I got hired on full time.

04:02
And then I went on to get my masters and then my PMP along with some other certifications.  in my mind, this is it. Like I was gonna do this. I always wanted a family. Don't get me wrong.  I envisioned, you know, I got married later, so to speak, in life,  in my 30s. But in my 20s, it was all career, career, career. And I thought to myself when I had a family,

04:30
that I guess I didn't really just know. You don't know what to expect because you've never been in that role before. I didn't realize that I'd have this polarizing just pool to want to be with my kids versus the fulfillment that I was feeling before in my career and that it was no longer going to be there.  I can agree with that as well related to that. I was very surprised when I found

05:00
I have a very strong maternal instinct. I'm very nurturing.  I'm like,  where, where did this come from?  I know. I know.  We joke, my husband and I joke, say that I have, he gives me kudos all the time for the patience that I have with my kids,  with, yeah, my kids in particular. And I recognize that don't have that as much with adults as I do with kids because...

05:25
I just see it differently.  So he says, he always gives me kudos for that. And I'm like, well, I give you kudos for sometimes your patience with adults because I, as I became a mom, my patience sometimes for dealing with the same things in and out with adults was limited versus I have the bandwidth to have tons of patients with my kids. And that kind of played into it as well. surprised me when I have a lot of patient for my kids like this, but they also strengthen our patient.

05:56
surprised the kind of patient I actually have in me. So tell me more about the career before you left. Like what was it like? Was it it demanding?  Was it like was it in office? Like what made you has to leave? Like at what point was your you realized that you don't want to do this anymore day in and day out? Yes, so so a little background.  So when I had my first my daughter, it was during COVID.

06:21
So things were different. So I got a different experience.  So someone that typically was traveling all the time and everything, it just so happened I got pregnant during COVID where we were not traveling. We weren't traveling overseas anymore. And so I was actually working from home. So what I did was, I mean, I had this home office.  We had a nanny that was here during the day. So I would come down on my breaks. You know, I got the best of both worlds, essentially.

06:49
I love that. So that was my baseline at that point. It was like, okay, this is great.  I can manage this. I still felt passionate about my job, but I also very much wanted to be around my I didn't think that I was missing anything. And during that time is when I really started to establish strong boundaries where I would plan my life or my work around my kid's schedule. And at that point with one kid, my daughter was going to bed at like 6.30 PM, so I would do a hard cutoff.

07:19
At like 430, I would start really early, you know, and I would cut off at like 430. And then I, after I put my daughter down on the days that I had a lot more work to do, I would get back on, you know, after hours, but I wasn't, I didn't feel like I was missing much because she was here in the house and I was, you know, here as well. able to arrange your hours and flexibility around it. So you can still be around her enough time, not feeling like you're missing too much. And so what happened?

07:47
So then, fast forward,  my... So when I got pregnant with my son and had him in 2024,  things started to change in the workspace, know, in the workforce.  know, people were coming back to the office, the expectations to travel are picking back up, all of that.  So I... From the beginning, I felt...

08:10
different. Like I extended my maternity leave. I did like four and a half months or so. And then I just went into the office and you know, right away it was just like no one had skipped a beat. It was like I hadn't just gone through, you know, having my second child. It was like, all right, here's our demands. Here's, here's, you know, let's get back to it kind of thing in the office.  And I didn't feel it anymore. I didn't feel it as much.  I felt like I was missing more at home than I was

08:40
when I was in the office, all I wanted to do was be at home. And that is kind of where I started.  And like I said, before becoming a mom, I've really never thought that I would be a stay at home mom. I didn't even like understand it. But I started to just ask myself, like, why was I pouring so much energy into developing adults and like solving the same organizational challenges that we've been working on for years, you know, when the two little humans.

09:07
that they were at home and they were changing and growing every single day.  And that reoccurring thought just kept going on and on in my head. And it wasn't like one day saying this went on for months.  And finally, I had this discussion with my husband and he's so supportive and he just wanted me to be happy.  the financial piece of it was something that we had not planned.

09:34
for extensively by any means at all. So that was a huge factor, but we kept going back and forth and ultimately it was my decision.  And I kind of just had this moment that I realized I did not want to miss out on these years by being in the office five days a week or traveling and such. The return on investment really just changed for me. And it wasn't like about that paycheck anymore or anything like that. It was just about, I wanted to be present.

10:03
And during the years I'll never get back.  just after that, after about four months, I was like, all right, I think we're going to do this.  And yeah, that's, that's kind of how it happened.  So it took four months. during that four months, there was something you guys did to prepare for this day.  Um, sacrifice you how to make.  Yes. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, during that four months, you know, we, tightened up very, very much.  So.

10:30
financially and you know changed a lot of you know cut the travel got really smart with you know swiping the card so to speak you know going from my mom is a retired but is a financial advisor and by no means at all we were rich I don't like to even say it but but it's a good analogy that I like to say she said to me she was like it's

10:55
harder to go from riches to rags than rags to riches. And again, we were not rich, but it is an adjustment. Like when you're used to just being able to, you know, put the stuff on the conveyor belt and now you're like, okay, I got to pinch these pennies in order to make this happen. It was a big shift for sure. And definitely had some challenges, but we, did what we had to do so that I could walk away. That's a, you know, it's a great sacrifice and trade off. I, I really am.

11:26
able to prepare yourself for four months and then be like, okay, like we're, we're going to do this and we're going to get ready for it, not just jump into it. So I really liked that transition that you guys did. So how was it when you quit your job? Was it a relief?  Yes. So initially it was a relief.  I mean, yes, it was, I felt so good walking away. I didn't have that initial thought. Like I was just on cloud nine. Honestly, I really was. Uh, it was a.

11:55
at the beginning of summertime and I just like, all right, this is great because summer has always been one of those that was really tough for me even before my son was born,  like when I was working from home most of the time, but obviously I was working because summer, you just want to be outside with your kids. You just want to do all that kind of stuff. And being able to do that for the first time without taking, you know,  a massive amount of leave and all that. And also, you know, being kind of on call.

12:22
with certain work things. It was a great and freeing feeling.  yes.  Initially,  I mean, I would say it loud and proud that I was, you know, stepping away from my career. Here we go. But there were a couple moments when it was interesting saying it out loud to other people.  When people would ask me, you know, what, what are you doing now kind of thing. And I didn't realize that saying it out loud that I'm a stay at home mom is

12:52
But when you're used to saying your title that you were, you know, it was harder than I had imagined.  Yeah. Cause you were you, because you thinking that people think that stay home mom mean a certain things or it doesn't mean nothing at all. At least for me before I feel like my title means something. I mean, I work hard and mean I had a degree or mean that I put time into something, but stay home mom.

13:17
Don't even know what that equal to.  What was it behind that was hard for you? Yeah, no. mean, was the words,  like literally saying it to someone.  was a few months after I had left the workforce.  And like I said, I was feeling great about it. I was out at a restaurant meeting, catching up with an old friend of mine and ran into someone from like my high school, but I hadn't seen in years.

13:43
And he asked, you know, what I was up to now. And I can tell you is ready to hear, you know, my next story about traveling overseas and leadership development pieces and, you know, just things that I would have shared beforehand. And I remember just pausing and I was like, I stepped away from my career to be with my kids.  And in that moment, the words felt like small coming out of my mouth and not because I wasn't proud of it, my decision, but I felt like

14:13
I had spent two decades attaching my worth to my title. And I went home that night and I remember telling my husband that I was mad at myself because I was mad that I couldn't say with confidence what I was doing now when I made my introduction like I had in the past. And then it kind of clicked for me.  I felt like my signature block in the past and all the titles unknowingly had...

14:39
tied into my identity and I didn't even realize it. And I had even kind of started believing that that stigma around just being a stay at home mom, even though I truly didn't believe it, but I guess I somehow had gotten pulled into that because that is society's stigma. I I fully believe that.  Right.  Were your mom a stay home mom? Like when you grown up?  So, yeah, so I come from a

15:04
like a split household. So my mom, for the first couple of years, she was a stay at home mom for my brother and I.  But then she had to go, once my parents got divorced, had to figure it out and she started a career later in life. Yeah, so she doesn't really have as many memories. Being a stay at home mom, she has some.

15:27
And when I did discuss with her, she said, you'll never regret this. She didn't say that along with a lot of other people.  You know, I did get some positive support in my discussions with others, but also I got some, a lot of pushbacks. Yes. But she, she did say you'll never, she was happy for me and she said that you will not regret this, but it wasn't like she was able to do it, you know, throughout my, until I was 18 or, throughout my.

15:55
my life or whatever my adolescence.  That's very interesting because I see that as it's very good that your mom is very supportive and have a positive thing to say about it because I was thinking of somebody from her perspective or grown up in that household.  Would you worry because this is all far worry, right? I got divorced once before we all heard that if you're a stay home mom, then if your marriage fall apart, that's gonna be terrible.

16:22
Yes, yes. No, it's so interesting you say that and I wasn't prepared for that part of this discussion today, but it is something that I agree with. It is something and I remember having discussions with my husband because I mean, like I said, I worked with solely men basically and a lot of them traveled most of the time and their wives were, you know, stay at home moms and such and

16:48
I got a unique perspective from that because I saw a lot of their marriages did not make it.  you know, also just the negative talk about, you know, stay at home moms, unfortunately saying that, but it kind of shaped some of my thoughts about it earlier on in my career, because that's what I was hearing. was, you know, young and that's what I heard.  So, yeah, I am very, very.

17:14
Fortunate when it comes to my husband. I feel like I hit the lottery with him.  Um Appreciate what you do Not not having a very bad stigma around what say a home mom does because we do a lot so that we're a partnership So our husband can work the other partner can focus on their career It's a lot of work when both both partner or parents has to have to help out with the kids remember the days when me and my husband has to

17:44
take turn to do drop off and pick up, take turn for sick leave, take turn for like all the day, like off or nannies are off. Just so hard to manage. this really nice when you can finally be like, I want to be with the kids.  So you go and you don't need to worry about this. And there's nothing wrong with working mom either. Cause I, I feel like it's just what is right for you. Cause I grew up with a very unhappy stay home mom.  I

18:11
I feel like it's whatever make the mom happy and the kids will grow up to be the best version of themselves.  But if that's what we want to do, it's so nice when we have husband that really appreciate that. And, and I really think, the fair is always going to be there. Marriages will fall apart regardless work or not work, but there's always a way we can prepare ourselves and also being there to build that relationship with our husbands. So do you find it.

18:36
to be different now, your stay at home mom, that your relationship with her husband has changed? I would say, I think because of the chapter that we're in, I mean, we're both, we are both exhausted, you know, a lot. So I think that that plays in, but that played in both,  both when we were both working and when we're not. I think some days now, I am even more exhausted, which is actually crazy because you're on from the moment that you wake up until

19:05
bedtime kind of thing. he makes a big effort when he gets home to just jump into dad mode and you know, trying to give me a little bit of time. And so I think that's super helpful. But there are definitely days that I am more tired now, I would say than before, which again, I feel like is absolutely crazy.  But yeah, your kids are in the stage there. Are they like two and four? How are they? Yes. Yeah.  So yeah, they're at the stage that they just want to be with you all the time. They need you for everything. And

19:35
The fun stage is I think your youngest has probably started fighting with your oldest, but really you're going to miss this time. I miss that time all the time. My kids are six and eight.  So I was home with them. Zach at that time when they're that age and it's so much fun. But like you say,  so tired, like that tired. literally like have no energy doing anything. And I'm just like, how can I feel this way? Just chasing or being around my two kids is.

20:03
Yeah, I can't even describe why or how, but yeah, literally you're just exhausted.  Yes, you are like mentally exhausted too. You know, mentally, physically, yes, but most rewarding at least, you know, how, how I see it right now. So I would say our relationship is about the same in most ways because of just the stage that we're in for sure. And I try to be intentional. This is something I try to do is cause you know, so for, for us anyway, like in order to get.

20:33
any like a night out or anything like that. Those are very, very, very far and few. Like we don't really have much support as far as child care, especially that is handled like the two that are in this stage right now.  So I do try my best to get someone like every month or every two months or so just so we can get a few hours. And it's so funny how you're recharged after two hours. We have done things,  done things as simple as

21:03
just gone and I pack a lunch and eat on our access road in our car just talking to each other while someone is you know making sure the kids are alive at the house.  Yeah yeah because yeah it's so nice to have that time just you and him. I know my kids like to hear what we talk about they also like to talk about what they want to talk about. I don't feel like we ever have a real conversation throughout the week when we're at the dinner table.  So it's really nice when you can actually go

21:32
just the two of you and even just, you know, just talk. That is really, really something that we take for granted in our days when we didn't have kids.

21:44
It's so true. laugh about that probably daily. It's like we were actually on a vacation beforehand and we didn't even realize that because, we had free will to have just discussions or to just have a night where we veg out and, you know, watch a show and just quietly or read books next to each other without interruptions.  And, yeah, we didn't realize that at all.

22:04
So if any pre-kid people listen to this podcast, hey, just think you're actually on a free vacation, right? Yeah, enjoy it when you have it, but I won't trade it for anything. I'm sure you're the same. This is so fun to have our kids in our life. They are, they just bring so much joy and so much work, but they're really bright in our life and our day.  So, um, yes. And I want to know more about what you're doing now these days. I know that you started.

22:31
your Instagram, the leading little humans, how did that idea come from? Like, when did you start it and how would you start to want to do this? Many sleepless nights. No, no, I'm just kidding.  No. So leading little humans was honestly born because I kind of realized I wasn't using my leadership background any less.

22:56
I was just applying it to my two-year-old and my four-year-old.  I spent so many years studying and being so heavily involved in leadership development,  figuring out what motivates people,  how trust is built, how people respond to clear expectations,  how to create confidence and resilience. then I became a mom and I thought,  mean, wait a second, know, toddlers respond to the consistency.

23:24
I mean, they respond to the trust, you know, they respond to feeling seen and they respond to clear expectations and so do adults, right? So I started seeing all these incredible parallels between leadership development and parenting. And I started to think I was like, okay, I'm leading my children and we can't lead our kids if we aren't leading ourselves as well. So I wanted to just really

23:53
develop a platform where I could help others that might have feel a little bit lost at times or whatever, or just need that confidence boost as to how to raise confidence emotionally.  And a big thing is how the kids watch you handle your stress and how we speak about ourselves.  Because you're a little, especially when you're a stay at home mom, mean.

24:21
They're modeling every single thing that you do, right? I mean, you are their peer, you're, you know, so to speak. You are their everything. So it's important for moms to pursue their happiness, how we, and to show kids how to recover from failures and all of that such,  because...

24:40
the kids are watching, they're watching, how do you expect the next generation to be these high functioning kids if we're not modeling it? So that's kind of where it's originally stemmed from. And I knew that I wanted the flexibility to be able to branch out depending on what season of life I'm in. So that's kind of the background on why I didn't just put my name on a new Instagram and call myself an influencer kind of thing.

25:09
I love that. Yeah. Applying your leadership knowledge and skills in raising your kids.  And I, I totally feel like if we can be leading our children, then we can lead adult, lead adults. Cause children are so much less reasonable in ways.  If we can get them to do something, we can get other people like adults to do something.  I.

25:36
I've learned so much from our kids too. They're also brutally honest.  Yes.  They'd be like, well, you tell me do this, you didn't do it. And I'm like, oh no, like really seriously, they're really watching us in this. Always.  Like frustrated sometimes you're like, can't believe they just tell me I need to be better, do better.  So, so I really love, but I also love that we are the one they're watching.

26:06
Cause I used to have nanny and I love our nannies, but to be honest, like you want your kids to be with you. They, want them to, to know you. Um, what is the best to be is other than spending time with you. Right. And then we, as a role model, like you said, like we need to be able to lead ourselves and do whatever that'll make us to be the better self. So when we're with them, we are.

26:32
showing them like what this what the reasonable or functional adults are dealing with things. How they deal with a frustrated driver like we're on the road.  That's one that's actually that's that's what it's really I'm learning from them and and I'm becoming better in that instance in particular amongst others.

26:54
But because my four year old in particular, she will call me out if I even make a face at a driver that I feel is distracted and such.  she is always watching. And yes, I handle myself completely different than I would have say, 10 years ago, say five years ago.  Yeah, they teach us how to be kind to I feel like they're like,  like, know, you shouldn't say that about that person or you know, like, I'm like, yeah, they're they just very sweet, like,

27:24
They forgive very easily.  Just yeah, like our kids are just great example for us when we're also trying to teach them at the same time. So tell me more about now you have this Instagram and how when you introduce yourself, when you see other coworkers,  like, do you feel like they are looking at you differently? They're like, Oh, you're like, on Instagram, you're creating content. Like, do you feel like they're looking at you? Like, who are you?

27:52
Honestly,  yes, especially at first. I was absolutely worried what people from my old career would think.  I used to joke, and I still kind of joke with my husband,  that I'm blowing up my reputation on Instagram one post at a time.  You know, I went from, you know, this, I guess, you know, highly respectable position to making videos, you know, about...

28:19
packing lunches and you know, uh, daily movie nights and you know, dancing online. So they're creative. They're fun,  but definitely in the business world, they see it as,  this, what are you doing now?  Right.  Exactly. No, 100%. And that for me has been the most challenging part. Uh, because I feel like

28:44
I'm good 90 % of the time, the only person, like I don't care about any one, don't know, putting a comment on my stuff or whatever, like that would never affect me. That says more about them in my opinion than it does about me.  But what does bother me at times is definitely my ex coworkers,  the thought of them seeing it. But I've had to kind of just say, all right, it is what it is kind of thing.  And

29:10
You know, my husband always brings me back and he's like, you know, from it to your core, you're trying to help people and you know, you're doing you get to be creative in doing that. And that's one thing that I absolutely love about this is I feel like for the first time in a long time,  have the flexibility to be super creative with how I'm helping or how I think I'm helping versus, you know, having the restrictions that I had in my other career.

29:40
For good reason, course, but laws and all the things, you know, I had to stay in this box, so to speak. And now, I mean, I can just be free and watch out world because I'm free right now.  But it's definitely been really fun.  And it's been motivating even on the days I'm super exhausted because that's definitely a conversation that my husband and I have had in the last year because he says to me, you know, I thought that you

30:10
We're going to just fully immerse. Cause I'm actually contemplating. I'm going to try this year to homeschool.  Yeah, I know.  We'll see. We'll see.  But he's like, I thought that's what you want. And you're so exhausted. trying to give you, you know,  time for you, but you just keep taking on more things. But with that being said, I see how encouraged and motivated you are by this leading little humans.  And because of that, I mean,

30:39
he fully supports because I don't feel like it's sucking, you know, everything out of me. feel like it energizes me because I get to be creative.  Were you always a creative person when you were younger? Yeah, so that's an interesting question because I started down this path of this my other career so early on and I was, you know, for me, I mean, I was still figuring out who I was 100 % in my

31:08
know, late teens, early twenties, like my bachelor years in college, going,  pursuing my bachelor's degree. That was just like a kind of a blur of a time. So I feel like I was definitely still very much coming into my own. And I don't know if I even knew my creative potential at that point, but I was so already driven down this one path that I was just going to do everything. I knew my roadmap.  I knew what it took to get to where I wanted to be. And I was going to do everything.

31:37
that I needed to.  I don't really know if I think I was deep down, but I just never unleashed my creative side. Yeah. So it's good that now you have the opportunity to do that, which is very funny. Yeah, it is. It truly is. Yeah. And I had just this big perspective shift as far as how short life is kind of thing, you know, and like, I always joke that I don't want to be at the end of my road and be like, man, I wish I would have

32:05
done this, man, I wish I would have tried this because why not? Like you're only here for a short amount of time, so to speak. It's like experience everything that you want to experience. Yes. And like you said, you're showing your kids as well. You're taking a chance on something you're passionate about and share showing with them that there's more than climbing the corporate ladder. You know, like so as you are passionate about something, you work hard on something you can do anything that as long as this

32:34
helping people, right? So yes,  yes.  I love that.  That intention that you have. So let's talk about social media. I know personally, I didn't start Instagram until I put this book out. And to be honest with you, all my friends told me you got to get on social media. You got to like, you know, post about your book. I'm like, what? Like, no, like, I don't like social media.

33:03
Honestly, to me, like I only have Facebook at the time. have really trying to put boundary on more social media, no Instagram, no TikTok. I don't want any more distraction already I have. And that was all I have is Facebook. so I started social media. was Instagram.  It was so hard for me to start posting and it was so cringe worthy. And then that was just, I'm not growing followers. So frustrating. Sometimes it's just like, Oh, I post a post out there. Nobody likes it or nobody.

33:33
Like I got like a hundred view. I'm like, what,  like, what's the point? So I, I know you're doing so well, but at the same time it's like, how do you, how do you work with that? Like still like, I'm like chasing follower. Like everybody is like, I know I compare myself with people who have more followers than I do. I'm just so frustrated. And like, how do you keeping a very good, um, kind of a expectation on.

33:58
Yeah, no, I love this question because I I absolutely want my platform to grow.  I want to reach more parents. I want to build this business,  speak, because I believe in this mission. But I've made a promise to myself because I've set very firm boundaries.  I test drove a lot of different things at the beginning. I even tried to talk for like two seconds.

34:23
And I was like, absolutely not. This is not for me. More power to you all. that's not it. This is not helping me get to where I want to be.  And it's just a time suck kind of thing.  Before social media, I had real firm boundaries around my phone. I'm like that person that literally has my phone on Do Not Disturb. I always joked because I've had to accept the fact that my title could be.

34:49
influencer. I'm the worst influencer ever because my phone is on do not disturb half the time.  And I like I don't get notifications from Instagram in particular. I have to actually access the app to get you know my messages and all that kind of stuff. And I know that does you know it's it's a hindrance and in some regard you know versus people that are answering you immediately and all that.  But for me I

35:17
didn't want to leave a career and then just jump right into something that was again, just taking all my time, even if I am more passionate about it, because ultimately my priority is spending time with my kids and being present with my kids and my kids,  how we do phones in our house.  When my kids see me on my phone, they call it that I'm working.  That's what it is. And we've always been like that.  Before I, it's funny, I have like a personal Instagram account that I

35:47
don't ever use, but it's still alive.  And in 10 years of having it, I had less posts than I just did. I just hit on my Leading Little Humans one in less than a year. So for me,  that kind of puts it in perspective. Like I would post maybe once every two months or so, like on my other one. And I was barely ever on any social media platforms since having kids because, you know, didn't

36:17
had the time, so to speak, or didn't make the time for it.  So one of my big hopes is for people, you know, want to be careful with how you, I'm definitely not judging anyone at all. And I don't ever want anyone to think that I am.  Whatever works for someone,  a mom or a parent is what works for them. But I am a firm believer that things get a lot.

36:45
you're a lot less anxious in some ways when you put the phone away, when you are focusing on not being on the phone, answering all the messages and all that kind of stuff, when you have that dedicated time to do it. And for me, the dedicated time is during that time. It's usually very, very early hours before the kids get up. And then, you know, in the evenings, I try to have my time with my husband after the kids are down. But every now and again, I will, know, especially when I first stood it up.

37:14
When I first stood it up,  actually it worked out because we were in that period. I don't know if you went through that with either of your kids where they were having trouble sleeping in their room.  yes,  so my daughter would sleep with either my husband or I and we did a pattern.  So on my night that I was on the couch or in one of the guests in a guest bed, that would be when I was really just putting all the effort into the social, know, standing up, leading little humans. Now since then.

37:41
my daughter as she's back in her bedroom and all that kind of stuff. So my husband and I get that time back.  And so I have kind of stopped doing a lot in the evenings. So really my time is nap time and in the wee hours of the morning. And then every now and again, you know, I'll take a 15 minute here or there throughout the day.  But that's kind of how I'm doing it right now. And then sometimes on the weekends,  so my husband will take the kids and I'll have that time. I'll get that time.  And that's what's working for me right now.

38:10
Um, but yeah, there are definitely days that I do get down cause I'm just like, man, I know where I want to take this. I know what I can do if I just had the time. Um, but then I have to just talk myself back and be like, Hey, this is not what,  that's just why this is not why you your job for exactly. Yeah.  With me. Yeah. I find that when I start really putting a lot of effort in my content, I started checking on my posts a lot more. want to see.

38:41
comment it, how many people share like all these algorithms because you're trying to learn from it. And, but at the same time that my husband was telling me, do you know you're on your phone a lot? Like, I know you're like, you have your creativity just flowing and you're, know, like you just wanted to do something with it. But he's like, but the kids are here. And so, and then that pulled me back. Like, this is not right. I need to remind myself, this is not the time to be on my phone.

39:09
Maybe my account is going to grow slower because I just don't have that kind of time as some creator has all day.  Yes. But that's okay.  Um, and yeah. And so that's something I, and I really love that we have so much in common. love that you share about how much boundary you put around when to work and when not to work. So I asked everybody this question about in this stage of life, what does enough look like for you?

39:39
All right, yes.

39:45
So I think, so in this stage,  what is enough for me?  So what does enough look like to you? Like what, what does that look like that you'll be content and then doesn't need more. This is all I need. Yeah, no, that is a great question. And I think that for me right now, I would say exactly.  So exactly what we have, what I have right now, I think.

40:12
continuing to slowly grow my leading little humans and while being super present, as present as I can be with my kids,  continuing though,  continuing to be myself as far as I coin myself as trying to be as fun and intentional with the kids as I can be. And I don't want to lose that. I feel like for me,

40:36
that's losing myself would be, you always talk about losing yourself as a mom and everything, I think that would be if I let all the stuff, the noise, the tasks get in the way of me getting the experiences with the kids.  Being outside,  we're always outside, getting our hands dirty in the dirt and the mud kitchens and all the things out there. Being so...

41:04
Exactly. Yes, I'm serious that I miss out on that. And that is what I'm trying daily to prevent from happening.  Yeah, that's a great reminder for me as well is that let them be kids.  Exactly. Let them be kids. know,  exactly.  Yes, because it's such a short amount of time and you really think about it. I feel like, mean, so you said you have an eight and six year old. I love that you have a two year gap, just like, yes, I did.

41:34
Do you feel like you just had your youngest in like yesterday and then also he's been or she's been here forever? I still see him as a baby.  Yeah.  Oh, my baby. No, he's not baby. He's about to go kindergarten.  um, but yeah, it really time flies so fast. I,  know, pretty soon they will be out of the house. Um, I, and I heard that the more time you spent, it's like, this is investment.

42:04
It's just like money as well. You're investing this time in with them that in the future, they're going to want to spend more time with you too when they're adults, right? Cause you, you have enough memories and you think enough time and fun memory with them that they're going to want to be with you. So that's what I'm hoping. This is for me, the great success to look like my kids want to be with me when they're already old. don't like, they don't need to listen to me anymore. They still want to be around.

42:33
That's really going to be the success that I want to have.  100 % I agree with you and I want the story when, you know, we all talk about our childhoods you know, just someone down the road. want the story that they tell is to be like a really good one and just all, you know, all the fun that we had and you know, how they could always come to me for everything. I was the first person they wanted to come to, you know, they didn't have to hold anything back from me kind of thing.

43:02
Yeah. And also I know that we're not perfect. I, you know, I also need to remind myself that I would make mistakes. So they might not like something I did, but I feel like we try to learn. We apologize. That's the, you the best I can do. Cause I have a lot of learn behavior from my parents and I'm trying to unlearn those and then deal with those trauma. I, so sometimes I am catching myself.  I'm kind of doing what they did. then, but then for me it's to be like, that's not right.

43:32
I need to apologize. need to stop doing that. So I think that's the best is we can do is to be better. And I'm sure my my kids were probably one day was still not like something like that. I think in general, if they can say my mom loved me, and my mom has the best interest for me, and she's always supportive and just want me to be happy. I think that's good. I totally feel yes. And likewise, I feel like

44:01
you know, we all have that some version of some trauma from our own childhoods. And yes, we don't want to make the same, you know, we want to do things differently, right?  And connection based, like parenting is something I feel like it's like new age parenting in some degrees. Some people still got that back before, but some a lot of did not. And I think that for me, you know, I make mistakes on the daily.

44:30
Um, I am definitely not perfect, but I, my kids have heard me say, I'm sorry more in their four and two year lives. I probably already did my entire life. Yeah.  And then I teach them to say sorry too, cause they have a hard time sometimes too. And then for them, if they see that,  can, mommy and daddy can apologize. It's not a big deal.  You know, just, just have empathy.

44:58
for teaching them to have that emotional intelligence, which is super important these days, more than just intelligence itself.  Like being intelligent is important.  So as we're about to close, I want to ask you to share with people who want to follow your journey or learn about your little human, leading little human, where can they find you? And I know you have a podcast that's about to come out. Can you share that with our listeners?

45:27
Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you for that.  yes, follow me on Lady Little Humans. That is my Instagram handle for all for a lot of fun. I'm going to start with that a lot of mom fun, a lot of parent fun, but also, you know, just to feel a little less alone in the whole parenting scheme of life chapter of life and to join in on the community that we're developing and

45:53
and creating over there. And then also moms after dark, which is my new project that is going to be launching the first week of August. You can find that linked on my Instagram accounts. So I really hope that some people come and join along on the journey.  Yeah. Thank you so much, Arisa. I am so grateful for you being here now, including your Instagram link in the show note as well. And I'm just so glad that we finally get a chat because I feel like we're kind of, we're kind of

46:21
thinking like twins in some way.  And your story, feel like when I hear your story, feel like that's my story is so crazy that we have gone through so many similar faces. And I know there are women out there listening right now.  They probably wrestling with a similar questions and feeling similar feeling and asking themselves like, should they do?

46:46
next day or next month or so. So I really hope that people feel seen and encouraged when they hear this conversation. So thank you so much again for reminding us that success doesn't look like the way we always imagine. And that sometimes the bravest thing we can do is choose what matters most, which is our family. Thank you, Marisa. Thank you so much, Kim.

47:11
You can find Marissa and her work on Instagram at Leading Little Humans.  And I have included the link in the show notes as well.  I will also love to hear from you.  If there's a topic you would like us to explore,  a story you would love to share,  or you will be interested in being interviewed for the podcast,  visit freedomofenough.com. You will find all the details in the show notes.

47:40
And if you're enjoying the podcast,  one of the best ways to support me is by leaving a review on your favorite podcast app.  Review help more people discover these conversations and help the show continue to grow.

47:56
Thank you for spending this time with me.  I hope today's conversation encourages you to think a little differently about success,  fulfillment,  and what truly matters.  And I will see you next Tuesday.  Remember,  the world will always ask for more,  but you get to decide what enough looks like.