From TV Reporter to Stay-at-Home Dad : Redefining Success and Fatherhood

00:09
Welcome to the Freedom of Enough podcast.  I'm Kim Patten,  author of Pivot and your host.  This is a place for honest conversations about what it really means to build a life that is true to ourselves.  Because we don't have to earn our worth.  We are already enough.  Let's discover what enough looks like starting now.

00:40
If you haven't listened to episode four,  I encourage you to go back and check it out.  That conversation explores similar themes from a mother's perspective,  making today's discussion a valuable companion piece as we continue exploring how families are redefining work, caregiving, and success.

01:01
According to a 2023 Pew Research Center analysis,  dad now make up 18 % of stay-at-home parents in the United States,  nearly double the percentage from 1989. As more families rethink traditional roles around work,  caregiving, and success, the experience of stay-at-home fatherhood is becoming more visible and more common. Today's guest is Aaron Martin.

01:29
A former investigative reporter turned stay-at-home dad whose reflection on fatherhood, identity, and modern family life have resonated with thousands of people online. In this conversation, we discuss ambition,  parenting, and what happens when someone chooses a different definition of success than the one society often expects. I hope you enjoy this one.

01:59
Hey, Aaron, welcome to the show. Thank you, Kim. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, I'm really excited for our conversation today because I want to learn more about your journey from being a demanding career as an investigative television reporter to becoming a hands-on stay-at-home dad. You have written and spoken about how that transition changed not only your daily life, but also the way you think about fatherhood, identity, and success.

02:24
Those are things we explore often on Freedom of Enough. So I'm looking forward to hearing your perspective. So to get started, take us back to your life as a reporter. What did your career look like? And what led you to step away from that to become a stay at home dad? Yeah, so it was an interesting journey. So I had wanted to be a reporter for most of my adult life and it was a very interesting job. I moved a lot. I lived in a lot of different parts of the country.

02:53
And I would cover politics. I would cover local government. I did a lot of investigative work in terms of taxpayer waste and things of that nature. So it was a really exciting job and every day was different, which I really enjoyed. But it was demanding too, because I was on deadlines every day. There was no real being off of work. So even when I would come home, I would be on my phone or on my computer.

03:20
So it was a 24 hour a day job, but truthfully, I really, really liked that. But once my daughter was born, which was back in 2020, my perspective on things started to change. And while I still enjoyed my job, I found myself missing a lot of elements and lot of aspects of being a father that I just wasn't able to be present for as much as I wanted to. It was a lot of, okay, getting her up in the morning, kissing her goodbye.

03:47
And then getting it, getting home just in time to put her to sleep. And so I started feeling that, that tug, that urge to be there more.  And it just kind of developed kind of unexpectedly, which I'm happy to get into, uh, where I went from working 60 hours a week and being away far more than I wanted to,  to being home with my kids all the time. So it's been a great transition, but certainly was a big one. Yeah. How long did it take for you to realize that?

04:17
when your daughter came? Like, was it immediately that you want to quit or is it like kind of slowly like in her first year?  How? Yeah, it was a slow burn. So just to give a timeline on it, my daughter was about a year and a half when I quit my job. So it took a little while for me to realize it because this reporting was what I always wanted to do. It was what I love doing. But as she got a little bit older and truthfully, too, she was a pandemic baby. So that that weighed in on it as well.

04:47
Yeah, I have a 2020 baby too. I, So you know exactly what I'm talking about.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of work. Yeah. A lot work for whoever is home.  Yeah. Yeah. A lot happening all at the same time. So I think it was the combination of having a pandemic baby, being new to parenting and just kind of seeing what my life was and wondering, is this exactly what I want? Is this what I want to keep doing? I know this is what decidedly I should keep doing.

05:15
Yeah, it's what I used to want and it's what people want for me. But is it what I truly want for myself? And it took about a year or a year and a half before I it started to crystallize a little bit and truthfully, probably another year into staying home with my daughter and then eventually my son being born before it really was like, yes, this is what I want. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I love I love it. And so before we go even deeper, I want to know about

05:41
your family. Tell us a little bit about your wife and your kids. Yeah, so my wife, Katie, we've been married, it'll be nine years in October.  We met as reporters, so she was a reporter with me in Red Oak,  Virginia. Yeah, so we were just friends sitting next to each other for about a year and a half. And at one point decided we really liked each other and we had...

06:05
we were dating other people at the time and would complain to each other about who we were dating.  And eventually,  yeah.  And eventually said, Hey, maybe we really like each other. And so we started dating and then the rest is history. So we have my daughter, Adley just turned six and my son Blake is two.  Katie was a reporter with me for a while. She got out of the business in 20.

06:31
It was right after we got married and started her own social media marketing company. Wow. Which really took off about three, four years ago and has continued to really, really thrive.  without her, I wouldn't have had the option to start staying home with our kids because she has developed this company that has grown leaps and bounds and started with just her and now she has 20 full-time employees and has continued to grow. And because of that,

07:00
I have the luxury of staying home with my kids and not having to, to worry about being the second earner. guess you could say like our lot, we're comfortable enough where we are financially where we can make that decision, which has been great. Right. And then she probably had the freedom as well. She's not as demand is a demanding career in reporting. I'm sure it's very demanding as the owner of a company, but at the same time, she probably have a little bit more freedom than working as a reporter that, that used to be her career.

07:29
Yeah, so I would,  she would probably argue she works more than she used to, but it's more flexible.  Yeah, so it's a lot of me watching the hockey game at night and she's next to me on her laptop after the kids have gone to bed.  Oh, I see. She worked a lot of hours around the kids or the family schedule, sounds like. Correct. And it comes and goes. So she'll have periods where it's not quite as busy and she's working a little more of a traditional schedule.

07:56
Right now, it happens to be a very busy time for her company. So she's working around things.  But she was able to be there for my daughter's kindergarten graduation. She was able to take off for that. can work her schedule so she can be there for those big moments, which wasn't really an option for either of us when we were reporting. certainly, we had kids. I was still reporting when we had kids, or when we had my daughter, I should say.  And that just wasn't an option. It was just a lot less flexible.

08:25
Yeah. And I'm sure that's very painful at the time when you feel like, well, I got this family responsibility or obligation.  want to, I value, but my work does not value that the same. So it's very hard to like tell them, Hey, I, this isn't important to me. And I do love my job. It's really hard when the priorities does not sync up with the work.  So, um, so I do want to ask you like, is there days you miss?

08:55
any part of your job in the past? Like being a reporter, sounds like it was your dream.  And do you miss part of that? Absolutely. I mean, I think if you ever are doing something you truly love, it would be disingenuous to say you don't miss elements of it. I miss Election Day. I always loved Election Day. I to me that for me, those were 20 hour days.

09:20
but I really enjoyed the pace of it, the excitement of it. That was always a lot of fun.  You find yourself missing little things you didn't expect.  So when I started staying home with my daughter, she was a year and a half old, and I didn't realize how much I was gonna miss mundane conversations. Even with people at work, I didn't particularly like. Just having that interaction really was something that I thrived on. I liked talking to people and being in a situation where

09:50
majority of my day is a conversation with a toddler who knows 15 words is challenging.  It really,  yeah. A lot of it. Yeah. And they love you. Yeah. But they don't still express the same. They're more, they want to cling on you in the way that's like, okay, like I just need a little bit of time alone or have a little bit more intellectual conversation with adults.

10:15
Yes, exactly. You missed that in a way that I really, really did not expect. And the first six months of staying home was really, really challenging in that aspect because I just didn't realize how much I thrived off of having those daily interactions with people. And taking that away was really, really challenging. And there was a lot of things going on. So in my particular case, we had just moved. So we had moved from

10:42
Pittsburgh where I was born and raised, a lot of friends, and we moved to Miami, Florida to be closer to my wife's family. So I didn't know a lot of people. It was still the pandemic, so we had to be a little more careful meeting new people.  Socializing. Yeah. Yeah. And also at the time, I didn't speak a lot of Spanish. And so I moved to an area where Spanish is spoken oftentimes more than English, which now I love and it's fantastic. And I love my kids growing up in a bilingual

11:11
a bilingual community, but for me was very challenging at first. So it was a lot happening at the same time that I think added to that anxiety. But now I'm glad I went through that because it kind of opened all these new doors for me of not only experiences, but also showed me that, hey, you know what, this is what you really want to do because there were a lot of different barriers.  mean, some of them not as significant as others, but there were barriers there.

11:39
that would allow me to look at it and say, you know, maybe this isn't good for me.  I despite those, I still was like, yeah, this is what I want to do. Yeah. The challenges is so big. It sounds like you, didn't just go from being a reporter to a stay home dad. You also go from moving to a new town,  making new friends and new language.  That is just like, you know,  you know, a big amount of change comparing to a lot of other people who are going from.

12:09
changing career or going to stay at home.  So, um,  was at the time, like, was it scary for you? Um, or is it kind of like, let's do this? Like, you know, I'm, I'm going for running for the challenge. Like,  what was the mindset at that time? It was scary because the plan, at least in my mind, I didn't think I was going to be a stay at home dad permanently.

12:35
So the idea was, okay, we're going to move. I'm leaving my job. Let me just take a few months, get adjusted. It'll help with the transition from my daughter moving to a new place and I'll just stay home with her. But my thought was six months. We'll do six months and then I'll- sabbatical? Yeah. Yeah. I'll take a little break. It'll be nice to be refreshed and then I could get back into it. And after a little while, I started saying, you know, I'm really enjoying this.  I spent more time with her, with my daughter. I spent more time with her.

13:05
in that six months than I had in the first year and half of her life easily.  And we started developing a really strong connection. And I really liked being home for dinner every night. I really liked cooking dinner every night. And all these elements came together where I just said, you know, this is really nice. And my wife was the one who recognized it and said, you know, you don't have to go back to work if you don't want to, if you like this, we can keep doing this. And I...

13:32
I hadn't really thought about it in those terms until she said it, which is kind of silly because I was doing it. But once she kind of, and I hate to use the word permission, but in a way, because she was going to be the sole breadwinner, I needed her in my mind to say, this is okay.  It's a conversation decision made between partners.  that was actually my next question was, I want to know like, was how does conversation go? It sounds like you, you know, she actually nods you.

14:01
do it because she sees like how happy you are and you are and how happy your kid was. And you know, you have another one now, like how that make the family like bond and glue the family together that, you know, that is very, very priceless. It's not, you know, it's not something you can buy with money.  it sounds like it's a very natural kind of a

14:29
evolution for like you guys to go from like, just want to take a break to actually liking this and we can do this financially and we can get, you know, make this longer. And it sounds like it's like, you know, you, you're just like, continue to do it until, know, whatever change, right? It sounds like you're just being very flexible.  um,

14:55
Yeah. with your son still too. I described it perfectly.  I, which exactly, and I think, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but the way you put it, I think is perfect because I, I needed, it's a conversation obviously. And it was something we were discussing together and it was a family decision that was made. My wife didn't tell me, Hey, you should stay home.  I didn't tell her, Hey, this is what I'm going to do. We talked about it and we decided that was what was best for the family.  my one thing, and I'm very lucky to have, have my wife as a partner in this way.

15:25
She sees she's able to recognize things in me before I see them and she's able to see okay, this is really making him happy and I'm a little slower to Recognize it I think and so she saw that and said hey, this is what I'm seeing in you You seem very happy you seem to like this. Do you want to keep doing this and?

15:48
It really was that conversation that allowed me to say, yeah, I think I do want to keep doing this. I do like this. I like having this time because the point I always come back to is I will, there's certainly a world where I will take this time and I will look at it and say, I, well, sorry, let me start over.  Sorry. It's all right. I I would never look at this time and say, boy, I wish I was working. I just never could see a scenario looking back at it.

16:17
and being like, wow, I could have been working during this time. But I absolutely would look at this time and say, I wish I would have taken advantage of having that time with my kids that I'll never get back. Oh, and any time I have a rough day, any time something's happening, I just remember that I'm never going to get this time back. Take it while you have it. I mean, there'll always be work to do. I can always go back and do something that'll that'll make me happy and I'll be fulfilled professionally. But personally, I'll never be fulfilled the way I am right now.

16:47
And that's that's really a guiding star for me as I move forward with this. Yeah, because your kids won't wait for you. They're going to keep growing.  They're going to be like, oh, daddy's at work, so I'm going to stop growing. I'm going to you know, they're going to be your daughter six.  And they're going to be 10 like my daughter is eight and my son is six like your daughter is. You look back on the picture when they're little. It's like, where did that time go? And I know I think I love my job.

17:16
Pretty like pretty similar time as you. my, my son was two when I left my job, it's kind of like you like, you know, we adopted our daughter. So we kind of have a jumpstart on being parenting, but it kind of also is kind of like that slowly fill, fill, filling, coming and coming. then just at the, some point you just like, no, this is gonna be too, you know, it's gonna be too far gone in the future. And I'm going to regret that I don't take this chance that so it's kind of like.

17:43
Right on that time that I also feel the same way.  I'm going to regret it if I get older one day and they're older and I don't have that memory with them. Yeah. This time is, is precious.  I, a hundred percent. I think, know, this too, I mean, especially the way you pivoted and, and have highlighted this with your work. It's just, like you said, it's a time you'll never get back, but there's so much, I think, societal pressure in different ways that, okay, you had your kid. Now it's time to go back to work and.

18:12
when you're in a position where you can make a different choice and that's a choice you want to make, I think it's fantastic because ultimately you want to be there for those moments. You don't want to miss anything. And certainly it's a lot of work and it gets overwhelming at times. And there are days where I think to myself, boy, it'd be a lot easier to leave my kids with somebody else for eight hours.  But, but overall the positive outweighs the negative, at least in my situation, so much more. And it sounds like it's similar with you.

18:42
Yeah. And I totally agree,  it is front for us. feels like it's very valuable, but at that transition, it sounds like it was hard for you because you missed the conversation that you have at work.  So how was that transition in terms of day to day or your identity?  Like,  you feel shift in identity? Do you have doubts in yourself in terms of who you're going to become and who you were? Were there like a gap?

19:12
At some point,  like, you kind of tell us a little bit more about that? Absolutely. Yeah. I really struggled with my identity for a good, probably a year to 18 months. So a lot of, I didn't realize this as much at the time, but as I looked back, a lot of my identity was wrapped up in my job. Um, so I was, I was a journalist, but I was a TV journalist. So I was on TV every day and a regular part of my life was being recognized by other people.

19:41
You know, people would see me in the grocery store or wherever and talk to me. And so it's hard for that not to be your identity to a degree. I mean, my parents would tell everybody, oh yeah, my son's on TV and you know, their friends would watch. So it was who I was in so many ways and I did it for 12 years. Um, was, it was my adult life. It was what I did. It was everything revolved around that.  So leaving that job was.

20:10
also leaving an identity and then trying to figure out, who am I now? Who am I if people don't not only know who I am, but don't care necessarily what I have to say. I'm just another person. Or you're not on TV every day anymore.  You're like a local celebrity. Yeah, sounds like. Absolutely.  And there's an ego level to that where, you know, I don't think I'm an egotistical person, but when people care what you have to say, going to a situation in a new place where

20:38
Not only does nobody care what you have to say, but nobody knows who you are. It takes some time for you to say, okay, this is my new life. This is what's going on. And now it's my job to adjust. So I didn't really know who I was or what I was going to do next, where I would fit.  And the stay at home parents was a transition in my mind. And it wasn't until probably about six months to a year in, probably about a year in where I really started to embrace it more.

21:08
My wife had suggested, hey, why don't you start writing a little bit? See if that helps. Because I do enjoy that aspect. I enjoyed writing. I enjoyed sharing my experiences.  She had my Instagram account, she had actually kind of bought me as a bit of a gag gift. So she had found a guy on Instagram who had the stay at home dad moniker and basically paid him 50 bucks so we could have it instead. And she gave it to me as a going away present to my job.

21:36
And it was kind of a joke. Yeah. So it was kind of a joke initially.  And I, and she said, well, why don't you post about your experiences? Like, maybe you'll have fun with it. And so that started being a two. I'm like, Oh, let me just post some videos and it'll be fun. can do, my daughter and I can do it together. My wife can jump in and that kind of took off. And I found a community on Instagram of other people going through similar things and becoming stay at home parents or thriving a stay at home parents or struggling in some cases.

22:05
And that really helped me form my identity. So it was a lot of different things. And I think where I landed eventually was my identity is I am a dad, I am here for my family, and that is the most important thing in my life. And that really, really helped me a lot because I wasn't sure if that's what I wanted, but then it kind of all coalesced into this is what I want, this is what makes me happy, and this is what's best for my family too.

22:35
And it really worked out. took some time to get there. But once I got there, I was so happy.  I love it. So and also it sounds like you found your community through sharing and helping other people and finding people with like mind or people who need some help and and and connection.  So that that sounds like, you know, started with, you know, just a genuine desire to connect with others. So I really love your wife's idea. She sounds like amazing and great person.

23:05
I just love everything. She's been so supportive.  And, you know, just, you know, perfect for a family to have both partner have the same priorities and want just want each other be happy. I just love that so much. So can you tell me more in the beginning when you introduce yourself? Because I know I struggle with that in the beginning. Sometimes I still do.  When people ask you, what do you do? I mean, it's so easy, right? When you have a

23:34
pay work to go to and you're absolutely right.  Respectful work,  Like you can be proud to talk about.  But tell me because you talk about society does not value when people go from a professional pay work,  a busy work, also important work to

23:55
An important work at home, people don't really value as much they see as having kids if you can just send them to daycare or having nannies raise them,  like continue to make more money, continue to be more busy, continue with your life as usual.  tell me, how did you introduce yourself when people ask you, so what do do? This is such a good question because I struggled with this aspect of it the most. My wife and I would go out to dinner with some friends or we would go to a party.

24:24
And for the first longer than I care to admit, probably the first two, two and a half years, I would say I'm a writer. Now, is there truth to that? Yeah, I did. I did do some writing. Absolutely. Was that anywhere close to my full-time job? No, because I was self-conscious about saying I'm a stay at home dad.  So yeah, I would tell, I would just tell people I was a writer. Now, as I got more comfortable with it, I say, I stay home with my kids and it's been

24:54
I'm comfortable with that now.  But yeah, it took a while to get there because there is an inherent judgment that comes with that. think,  and some of it is perceived, I think more than reality, but I think it exists too, where, oh, you stay home with your kids,  that you're somehow less than, or you're somehow not achieving what you should be achieving. And it took me a while to get there. But now I say it very proudly now.

25:21
And usually the reaction I get is, I wish I could do that. Which my answer is, well, you should have married as well as I do. And then you could do that.  Yeah. I or like, feel like some people like they project themselves on you, right? Like, I feel like a lot of the people in securities, they project themselves onto our circumstances,  like your circumstances being a stay at home dad is, you know, it's admirable. Um, it's.

25:50
You know, I imagine it's lonely because how many stay at home dads do you know that live around you that you hang out with? Not a lot. So there are a couple that I know. There's one that I know pretty well, but most of the stay at home dads that I know are local.  we have close friends that live about an hour north of us where they have a similar dynamic that my wife and I do. And we'll get together with them certainly.

26:19
this dad and I have a good connection because of what we go through. But yeah, it's more common than it used to be. the research you were talking about earlier, I think really highlighted that. But it's still not, it's not common enough where people don't kind of look a little interested when you say that.  Like an example, when we first moved here,  my wife and I had to go to the bank to open up a new account.  And the banker we were speaking with,

26:47
could not wrap his head around that I was a stay at home dad. So he's like, oh, what's your profession? And I said, oh, I'm a, I'm a stay at home parent. And he kind of looked at me side-eyed and said, well, there's no category here in my form for that.  said,  self-employed. What do you want to say? And he said, should I put hallmaker? And I was like, I guess, sure. Like put whatever you want. Like, but he just could not wrap his head around. He's like, oh, but you're the, you're the husband. Why are you staying home?

27:15
And obviously an older gentleman,  so it's a different generation and different opinions on these things.  But yeah, so, and you still run into that occasionally, but I think, I do think even though I don't know a ton of other stay at home dads, I know some, but not a lot, there is an openness to it now that didn't exist even five years ago when I first started doing it. It's just, times are starting to change. People are starting to adjust.  But like anything, it's slow.

27:44
it takes time for people to get comfortable.  It's slow.  I feel like, you know, for stay home mom, there's more of those, because traditionally, that's how women fall into that role. And even with years go on, like women are encouraged to go and pursue career, but still, you know, I feel like the number are closing the gap with men and women being equally pursuing career and

28:13
being with the kids, like choose what works for your family, choose what for an individual, right?  So what is it like when you go to playground, there's this whole bunch of mom hanging out, you're the one that at playground like during the day and like, know, do you try to be friends with them?  you know, like what is your social group look like these days? So that was also a challenge and sometimes continues to be a challenge. I take my son, who's two, my son Blake,

28:42
I take him to a lot of different baby classes. we do one at the library. We do one at our community center nearby. it and me, right? But it's daddy and me.  Exactly. And so it's very funny, actually. There was one class that I used to take my daughter Adley to, and it was mommy and me ballet. So I was in there doing ballet with all the other moms. And after one semester, they changed the name to parent and me ballet, which was very sweet of them. But I thought that was a very funny thing. And they said, you're the only dad that ever consistently has shown up to this.

29:12
But even now I still almost always am the only dad that are in these classes. It's either a nanny or it's a mom and It at times can be a little challenging to break into those friend groups You know, find resistance sometimes and even there is there's one woman that had told me once that you know I just wasn't super comfortable Having you there at first and then once I got to know you it got easier and I kind of asked her I said, oh, why is that and she said

29:42
I just don't have a lot of male friends that way, certainly not in this scenario. And I just, took me a little while to get comfortable with you there. And I get that. mean, that's, that's reality. I'm not going to fault anybody for how they feel.  So yeah, it can take some time to get adjusted, to get comfortable.  Um, I find myself while being friendly, not pushing friendships as much just because I don't.

30:09
But the last thing I want to do is create an atmosphere where anybody is uncomfortable. Ultimately, I'm there for my kid. And that's my focus.  So yeah, it can be challenging. It can be a little difficult at times. But overall,  I found that if you just kind of keep being consistent and consistent with who you are and being friendly,  that people will come around, get more comfortable with it.

30:35
And then the nice thing is the next time there's another dad in my position in this community or in another community that these mothers or nannies or whatever are in, then they become a little more comfortable. And it's not so strange to have a dad there and have a dad is engaged in the same way. Yeah. I love that perspective. I do have a stay at home dad as friend as well. So I, really admire what they do. And I feel like sometimes I do better job than

31:02
stay home, mom, it's different. And I don't want to say better, but I just say different.  And I feel like they bring different perspective in parenting. And so I really love that, but I also can see your struggle as well.  And I think, to be fair, I think it's a struggle, wow, maybe a little unique to dads. I think in general, it can be hard to break into friend groups. And when you were in a certain place where, in my case, a new community,

31:32
There's a lot of times where there's established friends already or, you know, friends have been together for years and years. So I don't think it's necessarily unique to dads, but certainly there is an added element that may not exist in every scenario for moms. Totally. Yes.  Um, I, do. I'm curious about your parents, how your race, um, your parents,  what kind of relationship do they have? Were they, what were your mama stay home mom or your dad stay home dad? Like how was that dynamic with your parents?

32:02
How was it when you tell them, Oh, I'm going to be home with the kids or I'm going to take a break first. And then eventually that when you tell them once it's going to be longer,  like, was there, were they supportive? Like where were they like, where you're in loss, um, anything like, know, when you make your decision, anybody closer than your wife and your kids, what are their reactions?  yes, they, everybody in my life was supportive. will say my, my parents, I think were confused by the decision.

32:32
They knew how much I loved what I did.  They understood that it was something I had worked toward for a very long time. And so I think they were just a little concerned that I was making maybe not a rash decision, but a decision that I wouldn't be comfortable with. So while they're always been very supportive of me and very supportive of decisions I make, I think they were a little concerned at first.

32:56
But they have certainly come around and are very happy with how things have worked out and very happy that I get this time with my kids.  My father-in-law, who lives close by to us now, he was incredibly supportive. mean, he's constantly telling me how he wishes he had the time with his girls that I have with my kids.  yeah, were, but at first those were tough conversations. In terms of my own upbringing,  my mom was a stay-at-home mom.

33:26
for the first two to three years of my life.  When I was about three years old, my dad got laid off and my mom went back to work part-time as a bartender.  So she always worked part-time, but they were mainly nights and things like that and weekends.  So she was always there during the day, Monday through Friday for the most part to do the stay at home mom stuff. And I always kind of looked at her to stay at home mom, even though she was still working two to three nights a week.

33:56
to help and then my dad was a financial planner, he was always a big worker.  So most weeks he was working 50, 60 hours a week.  So I would be there.  Yeah, so my mom was the one who was usually there even though she also had a part-time job on nights and weekends to help us out financially.  Okay, so sounds like your parents have a little bit more traditional

34:23
marriage or a partnership.  it sounds like they just want you to be happy. And you can ask for a better parents than that. Cause you know, I'm sure it's different for them. And at the time, I mean, my parents and my in-laws, when I have,  when I say, Oh, I'm going to go back to work or, you know, pursue some side career, like it's very bizarre for some of them. But for my parents, my mom wanted me to work. So I have like tug of war of people just want me to do anything that

34:52
But anything I want to do is not what they want because nobody's ever going to be happy. Whatever I want to do, not everybody's going to be happy. So end up we had to choose what make us happy. But I love that you just have so many support around you and encouragement.  So I want to know that.  I love your writing, so you talk a lot about fatherhood through your writing and what are something you learn as a stay home dad that surprised you?

35:20
Oh, that's a really good question. Something that surprised me, I think what I learned is how much I need sleep.  I don't think I,  I knew as a stay at home dad, I would not be getting as much sleep and how responsible I guess I needed to be with my sleep. So when my son was born, my wife and I traded with my daughter doing overnight. when Adley was up until she was never a great sleeper.

35:49
But up until about two, we finally got her sleeping. And then when my son Blake was born, I did all the overnights with him. And that was a big help for my wife because she needed to be on her game for work and I was able to handle that and I was happy to be able to fill that role. But I just realized, I guess I didn't fully appreciate how short my fuse would be when I was only sleeping three or four hours a night.  And you know, I knew I'd be a little more grumpy, but when I am able to,

36:19
get a full night of sleep, I am such a better parent. I am more understanding, I am more lenient, I am more, I'm a better listener, I'm just a better parent. And so it has kind of forced me to be more responsible in my own personal life. There are nights where I just want a couple hours to myself. So even after my wife goes to bed, I'll say, okay, I'm gonna stay up for another hour and read. I'm gonna stay up and watch the basketball game. I just need something for myself.

36:48
And I have learned that, okay, that means though I have to be in bed by 11 or 1130 because I'm just going to be a bad parent. Not a bad parent, but a, a, the parent I want to be. If I'm running off of five or six hours of sleep, I really need by seven and that I'm in good shape.  Totally. then that's like taking care of your health, right? Yeah. Physically and emotionally. So you can be the best you can. And also I think that bring out interesting point is say home parents need.

37:17
need help. They need, they need help. it is 24 hour seven around the clock. And so it is, you know, like a profession that really need self care. And it sounds like, you know, like sleep. agree with you some time, like if I just let's just stay up to watch another episode or something, but you're like, but your kids might wake up and like unpredictable hour.  So, um, then you're going to regret the next morning.

37:44
Why did I do that? I, you know, your future self will thank you if you can just like bank enough sleep in the front end so you don't regret it later. So I love that, that insight.  So, yeah, I was just sorry to, sorry to interrupt, but just one other part of that too is my wife always really encouraged me to accept help when it's there, which I am not good at. I am not, very much am a, Hey, let me just do it. I got it. I don't need help. So I, my wife is

38:13
push this a lot.  Right now, my kids are with a babysitter and my wife was the one who was like, hey, just bring the babysitter for a couple hours.  And so we have somebody that comes usually once a week,  sometimes twice a week if I have something I want to work on or if I just want to go to the gym or go for a run.  And accepting that help has made such a difference too, because it allows me to do a little more self care, focus on myself a little more.

38:40
Which again, I feel like makes me a better parent because then I am not either stressed or I'm not letting tension build up. I'm just relaxing and I can just be the best version of myself. Yeah. You're all more whole because you got this time to do things that, you know, that you mentally need. And then when you go back, you bring this whole errand back to be with your kids. I, um, I totally agree with that. And I do want to know, so.

39:08
Now you're a stay at home dad and,  you know, who knows what future will be sounds like, know, whatever you do will be great successful no matter what, but how does it change the way now you see success? Like, it sounds like you told me that you value report reporter life, you know, being busy being seen being known,  what is it now? Like you feel like what is success change for you? Like, what do you feel success look like?

39:35
when you see people and when you talk to people, when you see yourself. I think for me, success is seeing my family thrive.  So seeing my wife doing well at work,  seeing my kids doing well, my daughter doing well in school, my kids being happy at home, being able to be present and play with them and do different activities.  And I think success for me is just looking at the end of the day and saying, you know,

40:05
I have built a good life for my family.  And while maybe I'm not building it financially, my wife's doing that part of it, I'm building it structurally. And that is what success is in my day-to-day life. And I feel very passionate and strong about that. And it took a long time to change that perspective. But ultimately, to me, that's the most important thing, being the best father, being the best husband, being present in...

40:32
these moments as much as I possibly can be.  And yeah, I fully intend to go back to work at some point. My son's still pretty young, so he's a little bit away from school. My daughter's in school right now. So yeah, mean, there's a world where I absolutely will go back to work.  But I don't see myself going back to a level where I'm missing things. I still want to be the room parent for my daughter's class. I still want to be the

41:02
dad who's not missing basketball games, the dad who's taking my daughter to ballet. I want to be that dad.  so success is being there for my kids. So when they're talking about this 20 years from now, they're going to remember dad was there for everything. And that's really success in my mind. I have heard the story that two kids were talking in the classroom and one kid was telling the other kid,

41:29
Oh, my dad is a doctor and da da da. And then the other kid was like, well, my dad is here. Like here in like, you know, whatever, you know, involving in their life.  it's. Okay. You know, you can brag about your, you know, your parents being away, but what is important is my parent is actually here. They're here. So it is. Yeah. It's hard to have both, but I feel like.

41:54
You know, I think absolutely be able to find that enough for ourselves that may not be what society, what our culture have wanted us to be streamed. But at the same time, that finding that enough in the middle, that's enough for us is possible. And sounds like that is what you're eventually going to be going for when your kids are growing, you you're growing with their kids and with their, with how much they need you and the flexibility you'll provide for how much they need you. So I, I.

42:23
I'm totally agree with you and I'm with you on that as well.  I, um, I think there's a few closing question I want to ask if the air Martin from your investigative reporting day cause see your life today.  What do you think he will think of the choices you have made?  Oh, wow. What a good question.  Uh, I think he would be surprised. I think he would have a lot of questions, but I think ultimately he would be happy of.

42:53
at where I'm at right now. think he would say, you prioritized your family and that is the most important thing. Yeah,  he must be proud of you and yeah, like you say,  surprise and shock.  He would be very shocked.  He would say, boy, we took a left turn somewhere, but he would be happy. Yeah, a sharp turn.  Yeah. Love it.

43:16
Um, and our podcast is floor finding was enough for us. And it sounds like you're enough sounds like is to be there for your kids and you're enough. Looks like your family's happy and your kids are happy and you're happy. So I really love that anchor that you have. And, um, last question, I'm sure a lot of listener are wondering about this. How can they find you and where can they find you in your writing?

43:39
Yes, so I write all over. that's a little, there's no one place, but I will say the best place to find me is on Instagram at stay at home dad. I share all my work on there and I regularly am posting different things we're doing with, with my kids.  I love cooking with my kids. That's been our new thing we've been doing. So you'll see some recipes, fun activities, things to get through the summer now that the kids are home a lot more. And also just, just fun.

44:08
So yeah, if you want the best place to find me is at stay at home dad on Instagram. And if you ever have any questions or want to chat about your own experience,  shoot me a DM. I'm always on there. I'm happy to chat and happy to talk about whatever you're going through or whatever I'm sharing. Yeah, I love it. And now I'll put your information to show note as well. So our listening can find you. I have a quick question when you talk about cooking. Does your kids like your cooking?

44:34
Cause I know my kids don't, certainly not.  My kids are very picky eaters. I have a handful of recipes that they like and will eat all the time. There is nothing they like more than Kraft Mac and cheese. So I can't compete with that.  I have implemented a rule, which my kids don't love, that every week I cook one new thing. And the rule in our house is they don't have to like it, but they have to try it. So anything that's in front of them, they have to try.

45:03
If they don't like it, I will get them something else.  So my daughter is fighting that one a lot, but it is working. We're getting some new things slowly into their diet. But yes, this is a daily, daily struggle as I'm sure you can, you can relate to.  actually don't cook every day anymore. I let my husband do some of that because I'm, I just feel so the fleeting, deeply to sometime just like.

45:29
Oh, I just spent the last hour thinking you'll like this. And sometimes you think they like something. Oh, the next time you cook it completely the same, say,  this. I'm like, this is the same thing last time you say you love.  It is very frustrating.  I, know,  I, I fell down to you letting them try new things and I, I need to apply to that as well.  So Erin, what I really appreciate our conversation and your story is that it challenged the idea that there's only one path to a meaningful life and you,

45:59
choose a direction that when I guess conventional expectation and in doing so show us what it looked like to build a life that's meaningful around your values rather than someone else definition of success.  And so thank you so much for sharing your experience, your insight and your perspective on what truly matter. It really opened my eyes. So it's been a real pleasure having you on freedom of enough. Thank you. Thank you, Kim. I've really enjoyed this conversation. So thank you so much for having me.

46:28
Thank you.

46:32
You can find Aaron's work at stayathomedad.  And I have included his Instagram link in the show notes.  I will also love to hear from you.  If there's a topic you would like us to explore,  a story you would love to share,  or you will be interested in being interviewed for the podcast,  visit freedomofenough.com.  You will find all the details in the show notes.

47:01
And if you're enjoying the podcast,  one of the best ways to support me is by leaving a review on your favorite podcast app.  Review help more people discover these conversations and help the show continue to grow.  Thank you for spending this time with me.  I hope today's conversation encourages you to think a little differently about success,  fulfillment,  and what truly matters.

47:29
and I will see you next Tuesday.  Remember,  the world will always ask for more, but you get to decide what enough looks like.